<< Think about a Sunday Mass in the Ordinary Form: the first reading, the psalm, the second reading, the Gospel, the homily, and the prayer of the faithful are usually all recited, all at the same place (the ambo), always versus populum in just the same way. The Eucharistic Prayer, high point of the liturgy, is also recited from the nearby altar, versus populum, in the same voice as the Gospel is read. A huge swath of the liturgy is being performed in exactly the same manner: read aloud, in the vernacular; read towards the people; read from more or less the same place; read in the same auditorium voice. It has the effect of evening everything to the same level. There is no ascent; there is only succession. It is reminiscent of Newton’s notion of time as equably flowing at the same pace. One moment of time is the same as any other. The liturgy becomes a homogenous block of undifferentiated verbiage. It is almost a demonstration of how much greater time can be than space — as in waiting in a doctor’s or a dentist’s office. >>
Scroll down to Appendix B at the end and click on the image. It shows how the old rite is absolutely saturated with scriptural allusions. Nearly all of them are gone from the new rite.
"The issue is that there is more to Mass than the homily and proclamation of the Scriptures."
Precisely: in the aforementioned lecture I call the problem "verbal imperialism":
<< The generally longer readings of the revised lectionary, together with a new emphasis in Sacrosanctum Concilium on the homily as an integral part of the liturgy, have contributed to what one might call “verbal imperialism,” that is, the tendency of words and wordiness to take over at many Masses, suffocate silence and meditation, and obscure the centrality of the Eucharistic sacrifice. It happens all too frequently that the homily will last a good fifteen minutes or more whereas the most solemn part of the Mass will last approximately three minutes due to the choice of the Second Eucharistic Prayer. >>
Thanks, Kevin. There are the two classic bits of advice on sermons, or indeed any speech.
1. Stand up, Speak up, Shut up.
2. If you haven't struck oil in fifteen minutes, stop boring.
One of the very few sermons that sticks in my mind came from a priest fifty years ago. I think he was referring to the Real Presence. He declared: "I believe this like I believe that two plus two equals four".
His sermon was more effective than a local priest a few years ago. I would give him twenty out of ten just for attempting to explain transubstantiation. I have never heard another sermon on this subject. It might have been in reaction to yet another poll on the lack of belief among Catholics. But his sermon was laboured and not very clear.
I'm a total nerd and I hate homilies. I'm 48 years in and have yet to hear the first one that is memorable for any reason other than a bad reason - having to sing "Happy Birthday" to Jesus and stuff like that. How many more years before I get one good one?
I’m very blessed; my TLM priests all give wonderful homilies, and I’m friends with a Thomistic (and traditional) NO priest whose homilies are worth being published in a book. I pray that you’ll be able to experience some excellent homilies yourself someday.
I think the idea that a central authority is in a position to determine anything for a wide diversity of local organizations is close to being ridiculous. I sometimes listen to the rather long sermons (20 minutes) given by the FSSPX priests in Singapore—some of which are helpful—and several by FSSP clergy whose masses are on iMass, some of which are short others long.
But I will say, before my TLM group reconciled with the local diocese on every Quinquagesima Sunday the bulletin had a picture of two men and in large letters said “Two men went up to pray.” One year the first sentence in the sermon was “Two men went up to pray, which one are you?” I don’t remember the rest of the sermon, but I remember the point.
The last time I was able to take the one hour drive to the closest diocesan TLM the sermon was very long but it had to be because the point being made required it. (The Greek words translated as daily bread in the Lord’s Prayer really refer to the body and blood of our Lord. Apparently St Jerome was not sure of how it should be translated into Latin so in one Gospel he used quotidian in and in the other another word I don’t remember.)
Finally, just because someone is not a nerd it does not follow that he is stupid and cannot follow a long argument. I think a lot of the problems with the Church (as well of with Protestant churches) is the assumption that people are stupid. Maybe Kevin meant to say many people only have short attention spans.
In support of Kevin’s point, at the local Novus Ordo Mass I attend most weekends these days, the priest could make his point in less than 7 minutes, but he is a talkaholic.
To be clear, the issue isn't that non-nerds can't follow a long argument. It's that non-nerds likely don't WANT to treat the homily as an in-depth seminar where they must follow lengthy syllogisms. We writers, debaters, etc who are used to it would do well to remember that blind spot.
“Imposing limits imposes discipline, and there is nothing more opposed to ego than discipline.”
Thank you for this. I too, in my workplace, tend toward the verbose, and being in a position of leadership, I do slip into preachiness at times. Your above statement is something I will need to remember.
Well stated and well intended. Our Redemptorist perish is gifted with eight or nine priests, who rotate through our numerous daily and weekend masses. There’s a good chance for a variety in their differing homily skills, and thankfully Redemptorists tend toward the concise(even if they usually use the “start with a joke“ trope).
Although, we have one or two that tend to meander uncomfortably. So, while I would not send your article to any of them, I will pray that they find it and read it.🙏😇
I go to a TLM with good homilies but I find my mind wandering off before the 10 minutes are up. I think 5 minutes is about the most I can retain. Usually I find the priest makes a really interesting point in the first few minutes, I think about that and, if I'm not careful, my mind heads off in another direction. Or I get distracted by a fidgety altar boy. Either way, 10 mins is too long for me.
There's also this problem:
https://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2017/10/homogeneity-vs-hierarchy-on-treatment.html
<< Think about a Sunday Mass in the Ordinary Form: the first reading, the psalm, the second reading, the Gospel, the homily, and the prayer of the faithful are usually all recited, all at the same place (the ambo), always versus populum in just the same way. The Eucharistic Prayer, high point of the liturgy, is also recited from the nearby altar, versus populum, in the same voice as the Gospel is read. A huge swath of the liturgy is being performed in exactly the same manner: read aloud, in the vernacular; read towards the people; read from more or less the same place; read in the same auditorium voice. It has the effect of evening everything to the same level. There is no ascent; there is only succession. It is reminiscent of Newton’s notion of time as equably flowing at the same pace. One moment of time is the same as any other. The liturgy becomes a homogenous block of undifferentiated verbiage. It is almost a demonstration of how much greater time can be than space — as in waiting in a doctor’s or a dentist’s office. >>
"There are probably 2-3 times the Scriptural references in the TLM as opposed to the Novus Ordo, a fun digression for another time."
Actually, it's much more than that, as I show here:
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2019/05/50-years-of-religious-and-cultural.html
Scroll down to Appendix B at the end and click on the image. It shows how the old rite is absolutely saturated with scriptural allusions. Nearly all of them are gone from the new rite.
"The issue is that there is more to Mass than the homily and proclamation of the Scriptures."
Precisely: in the aforementioned lecture I call the problem "verbal imperialism":
<< The generally longer readings of the revised lectionary, together with a new emphasis in Sacrosanctum Concilium on the homily as an integral part of the liturgy, have contributed to what one might call “verbal imperialism,” that is, the tendency of words and wordiness to take over at many Masses, suffocate silence and meditation, and obscure the centrality of the Eucharistic sacrifice. It happens all too frequently that the homily will last a good fifteen minutes or more whereas the most solemn part of the Mass will last approximately three minutes due to the choice of the Second Eucharistic Prayer. >>
Thanks, Kevin. There are the two classic bits of advice on sermons, or indeed any speech.
1. Stand up, Speak up, Shut up.
2. If you haven't struck oil in fifteen minutes, stop boring.
One of the very few sermons that sticks in my mind came from a priest fifty years ago. I think he was referring to the Real Presence. He declared: "I believe this like I believe that two plus two equals four".
His sermon was more effective than a local priest a few years ago. I would give him twenty out of ten just for attempting to explain transubstantiation. I have never heard another sermon on this subject. It might have been in reaction to yet another poll on the lack of belief among Catholics. But his sermon was laboured and not very clear.
I'm a total nerd and I hate homilies. I'm 48 years in and have yet to hear the first one that is memorable for any reason other than a bad reason - having to sing "Happy Birthday" to Jesus and stuff like that. How many more years before I get one good one?
I’m very blessed; my TLM priests all give wonderful homilies, and I’m friends with a Thomistic (and traditional) NO priest whose homilies are worth being published in a book. I pray that you’ll be able to experience some excellent homilies yourself someday.
It’s an old saying that if you can’t explain your idea on a cocktail napkin you don’t understand it well enough yourself.
I think the idea that a central authority is in a position to determine anything for a wide diversity of local organizations is close to being ridiculous. I sometimes listen to the rather long sermons (20 minutes) given by the FSSPX priests in Singapore—some of which are helpful—and several by FSSP clergy whose masses are on iMass, some of which are short others long.
But I will say, before my TLM group reconciled with the local diocese on every Quinquagesima Sunday the bulletin had a picture of two men and in large letters said “Two men went up to pray.” One year the first sentence in the sermon was “Two men went up to pray, which one are you?” I don’t remember the rest of the sermon, but I remember the point.
The last time I was able to take the one hour drive to the closest diocesan TLM the sermon was very long but it had to be because the point being made required it. (The Greek words translated as daily bread in the Lord’s Prayer really refer to the body and blood of our Lord. Apparently St Jerome was not sure of how it should be translated into Latin so in one Gospel he used quotidian in and in the other another word I don’t remember.)
Finally, just because someone is not a nerd it does not follow that he is stupid and cannot follow a long argument. I think a lot of the problems with the Church (as well of with Protestant churches) is the assumption that people are stupid. Maybe Kevin meant to say many people only have short attention spans.
In support of Kevin’s point, at the local Novus Ordo Mass I attend most weekends these days, the priest could make his point in less than 7 minutes, but he is a talkaholic.
To be clear, the issue isn't that non-nerds can't follow a long argument. It's that non-nerds likely don't WANT to treat the homily as an in-depth seminar where they must follow lengthy syllogisms. We writers, debaters, etc who are used to it would do well to remember that blind spot.
Sorry, folks. I just love long sermons. Otherwise I feel I'm not getting my money's worth.
“Imposing limits imposes discipline, and there is nothing more opposed to ego than discipline.”
Thank you for this. I too, in my workplace, tend toward the verbose, and being in a position of leadership, I do slip into preachiness at times. Your above statement is something I will need to remember.
Well stated and well intended. Our Redemptorist perish is gifted with eight or nine priests, who rotate through our numerous daily and weekend masses. There’s a good chance for a variety in their differing homily skills, and thankfully Redemptorists tend toward the concise(even if they usually use the “start with a joke“ trope).
Although, we have one or two that tend to meander uncomfortably. So, while I would not send your article to any of them, I will pray that they find it and read it.🙏😇
I go to a TLM with good homilies but I find my mind wandering off before the 10 minutes are up. I think 5 minutes is about the most I can retain. Usually I find the priest makes a really interesting point in the first few minutes, I think about that and, if I'm not careful, my mind heads off in another direction. Or I get distracted by a fidgety altar boy. Either way, 10 mins is too long for me.