And this is from someone with a strong preference for the Novus Ordo.
But just because I’m content with my liturgy doesn’t mean I want to stamp out the TLM any more than the Divine Liturgy or other valid celebrations of the Eucharist. Certainly not the Ordinariate, with its beautiful translation. What is the point of this insistence on conformity?
That's very good advice in your concluding paragraph.
In particular we need inspired pragmatic leadership from the laity, and good leadership is not a given, it's rather a rare commodity. We need to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves . Happy warriors picking our spots and making friends and allies with fellow non-TLM going Catholics.
And thank you for the picture. The Catholic side of my family is from the Vendée, although I must say I had never heard of integralism until Americans were accused of it by some anti-Americans.
I think its kind of a misnomer to call the Vendee "integralist" as integralism as a political philosophy was not really a thing in the 1800s, and only came about due to the collapse of the old order brought about by the French Revolution
Yet traditionalists have always drawn inspiration from that region, especially when you consider how many of them ended their lives: The State ending the persecution of their religion, and the monarchy restored. (even if only for a spell.)
But if it were truly an American phenomenon they would have had an American term to describe it but they didn't because we are Federalists not Integralists.
Or at least causing enough trouble that Napoleon sent troops to attack them again right before the battle of Waterloo. And lots of them did not survive the Revolution, including some from my family.
History is a bit off. For record, it was Napoleon's rise to power that ended the war in the Vendee. Previous harshness gave the republicans the initiative, but Napleon had grander plans, and had zero desire to continue a religious persecution nobody wanted. He offered "generous" terms to the rebels (in that they were free to practice their faith unmolested), and most accepted. As with so many things Napoleon, the Church didn't like him, but found they could do business with him on occasion, far more than his republican predecessors. (But even that was only conditional, as the pope dying Napoleon's prisoner later proved)
There are many martyrs of the Vendee, and their sacrifice bore much fruit.
What you wrote is true, but so is what I wrote. The Vendée rose up in opposition shortly after Napoleon returned from exile and he sent troops he needed at Waterloo to defeat them. He ended the war in the Vendee the first time and wasn't willing to lead the troops sent to suppress them at that time.
Given that there are 10 different canons in the Novus Ordo, the idea that we need uniformity strikes me as weird. I think Pope Francis already has a reasonabl legacy. His public ceremony of adoration at the height of the pandemic started its decrease in deadliness. He prevented Cardinal Sarah from forcing ad orientem on all the western churches. He pointed out that the Eastern Churches got Mary Magdalene right and Bethany and Magdela are 2 different places, thereby removing the insults she has long received. He added both Mary of Bethany and Lazarus to the Church calendar. Those are all excellent things he did.
For the record at no point did Cardinal Sarah attempt to force ad orientem on Western Churches.
He praised it and invited priests to celebrate it. Francis forcing him to remove that wasn't a sign worth praising, but part of the overall problem: an old man angry time has passed him by.
As for the East, Francis didn't embark on something his predecessors didn't already do.
As for COVID.... it got less deadlier in some areas, and worse in others. The benediction was the right thing to do, but lets not over interpret it. (Francis himself has wisely never taken such credit.)
Vatican II said that bishops have authority equivalent to Rome in their diocese, at least according to the Vatican II documents which I studied at Notre Dame in my ecclesiogy class in spring of 1991 with Father Richard McBrien, who emphasized this point.
No!
I hope the restrictions don’t work.
And this is from someone with a strong preference for the Novus Ordo.
But just because I’m content with my liturgy doesn’t mean I want to stamp out the TLM any more than the Divine Liturgy or other valid celebrations of the Eucharist. Certainly not the Ordinariate, with its beautiful translation. What is the point of this insistence on conformity?
That's very good advice in your concluding paragraph.
In particular we need inspired pragmatic leadership from the laity, and good leadership is not a given, it's rather a rare commodity. We need to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves . Happy warriors picking our spots and making friends and allies with fellow non-TLM going Catholics.
And thank you for the picture. The Catholic side of my family is from the Vendée, although I must say I had never heard of integralism until Americans were accused of it by some anti-Americans.
I think its kind of a misnomer to call the Vendee "integralist" as integralism as a political philosophy was not really a thing in the 1800s, and only came about due to the collapse of the old order brought about by the French Revolution
Yet traditionalists have always drawn inspiration from that region, especially when you consider how many of them ended their lives: The State ending the persecution of their religion, and the monarchy restored. (even if only for a spell.)
But if it were truly an American phenomenon they would have had an American term to describe it but they didn't because we are Federalists not Integralists.
Or at least causing enough trouble that Napoleon sent troops to attack them again right before the battle of Waterloo. And lots of them did not survive the Revolution, including some from my family.
History is a bit off. For record, it was Napoleon's rise to power that ended the war in the Vendee. Previous harshness gave the republicans the initiative, but Napleon had grander plans, and had zero desire to continue a religious persecution nobody wanted. He offered "generous" terms to the rebels (in that they were free to practice their faith unmolested), and most accepted. As with so many things Napoleon, the Church didn't like him, but found they could do business with him on occasion, far more than his republican predecessors. (But even that was only conditional, as the pope dying Napoleon's prisoner later proved)
There are many martyrs of the Vendee, and their sacrifice bore much fruit.
What you wrote is true, but so is what I wrote. The Vendée rose up in opposition shortly after Napoleon returned from exile and he sent troops he needed at Waterloo to defeat them. He ended the war in the Vendee the first time and wasn't willing to lead the troops sent to suppress them at that time.
Given that there are 10 different canons in the Novus Ordo, the idea that we need uniformity strikes me as weird. I think Pope Francis already has a reasonabl legacy. His public ceremony of adoration at the height of the pandemic started its decrease in deadliness. He prevented Cardinal Sarah from forcing ad orientem on all the western churches. He pointed out that the Eastern Churches got Mary Magdalene right and Bethany and Magdela are 2 different places, thereby removing the insults she has long received. He added both Mary of Bethany and Lazarus to the Church calendar. Those are all excellent things he did.
For the record at no point did Cardinal Sarah attempt to force ad orientem on Western Churches.
He praised it and invited priests to celebrate it. Francis forcing him to remove that wasn't a sign worth praising, but part of the overall problem: an old man angry time has passed him by.
As for the East, Francis didn't embark on something his predecessors didn't already do.
As for COVID.... it got less deadlier in some areas, and worse in others. The benediction was the right thing to do, but lets not over interpret it. (Francis himself has wisely never taken such credit.)
Vatican II said that bishops have authority equivalent to Rome in their diocese, at least according to the Vatican II documents which I studied at Notre Dame in my ecclesiogy class in spring of 1991 with Father Richard McBrien, who emphasized this point.